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I rarely get consensus when I ask about whether to include the "November" in a call-up. It's not absolutely necessary. And I rarely use it. But I've had a terminal controller from St. Louis tell me that it makes the pilot sound like an idiot when he uses the "November" in a call-up.

With all due respect to that controller (who is a CFI, CFII, MEI, etc. and likely has more time in airplanes than I have in my car), I think he suffers from running airspace in the middle of the US continental land mass.

Where I fly in southeast Michigan, we're very close to Canada. In fact, we're north of much of the Canadian population. (Toronto is south of Detroit.) I find that controllers around here tend to use the November even if the pilot doesn't because it helps the controllers keep the Canadian and other non-US aircraft (which do not have "November" tail numbers) straight.

My second instructor flew a lot of JIT freight from Mexico and he was therefore in the habit of always using "November."

Long story short, don't let those thumb-suckers get you down if they bawl you out for using "November" in your call sign. A few lines of O Canada on the frequency will keep 'em guessing.

i always thought that th e pilot didnt have to say november but the controllers did. I guess the examples you give make November make sense. Damn Steve, you're GOOD!

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Everyone must believe in something, I believe that I will go flying.

Having completed my Private Pilot in Canada, I was more aware of "november" when I arrived here. It makes perfect sense if you are flying somewhere where it differentiates you from another pilot. When we are in an area where it does nothing but give you another word to say, then it does seem a little redundant. Regardless, it's your call sign, you shouldn't feel conscientious about using it.
Another question....Skyhawk N37625, or Cessna N38625 - what do you use?

Depends which plane I'm flying: N37625 or N38625

Since I learned in a Cessna 152 I tend to forget that I should be saying Skyhawk when flying a 172 and Skylane when flying a 182. But I try to use the model name.

What should I be doing?

Uh huh...I guess it would

I teach Skyhawk...provides more information initially. Being that we fly in a fairly high traffic area, there are a lot of Citations out there, as well as multiple other models. I don't know if there is a right or wrong, but I did speak to a tower controller that appreciated hearing Skyhawk.

I tend to use "Katana", since a fly a DA20-A1, but I've found when I fly into an airport that doesn't have Katanas, the controllers don't always know what a Katana is. Then, I have to be careful, because if I say "DA20", they think I'm a Falcon Jet (the official designation of the Katana is DV20, but the company model number is DA20).

I hear Jason referring to his DA40 as "Diamond Star" in call-ups in the podcasts, so maybe I'll just start saying "Diamond Katana" or maybe even just "Diamond".

When I used to fly Cessna 152s and 172s, I'd say "Cessna 152" or "Cessna 172".

Stefan

Funny thing is, they often don't recognize Diamondstar either. Hopefully with more exposure, it'll become more common place.

I fly a Piper Warrior, P28A/G.

I call it as; "Norcal approach, Piper Warrior, 43434, pee-two-eight-aiyeh-slant-golf, with information oscar, etc, etc, etc...".

The response I usually get is Warrior or Cherokee, with the occasional miscue. I haven't used the letter lingo for the P (papa) or A (alpha) in the aircraft type, and haven't had anyone grouse, yet.

I get more controllers asking to confirm the tail number than anything else; "Uh, 434 what is you FULL tail number?" Or, the reverse, "Cherokee 43434343434, Mormon Temple at two-thousand-five-hundred, expect two-seven right Oakland".

ahhh the joy of a small population.
Here on Oz (Australia, not Austria - check the diff kids) we have a simple 3 letter call-sign. Our registrations logged with the registrar and painted on our aircraft are eg: VH-ABC
We do NOT ever use VH in our radio work. Not Ever.
Initial call we would use Cessna 172, I've not used Skyhawk, but I've never used "piper Pa28-140" either. I'd use Cherokee or Warrior or Arrow. I'll ask the tower boys what they prefer and advise...
But, sometimes, our controllers when controlling a training airfield Moorabbin, for example, may drop the first letter (A) and call 'bravo charlie' follow the cessna on late downwind, instead of alpha bravo charlie, which they should.
This is OK if there are 1 or 2 in the cct area, but if there are 3-5 of us doing touch & go's, then it can be tricky if there are similar call signs
eg: ABC, DCB, KAC, you smell what I'm cookin'?
Anyhoo (more americanisms:) thought you might like 2 hear from the other side of the world.
cheers mate!

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Fly safe,

David

In controlled airspace, I use "Cessna niner-two-zero-tango-alpha" or words to that effect. If I'm entering C or B, I usually call with my tail number and ATIS first and then initiate my request with something like "Zero-tango-alpha is a Cessna one seven two slash golf ten southwest at four thousand. I'd like to shoot practice approaches starting with the RNAV 36 from JAGMI" or something like that. If you're an odd type that the controller might not know (bear in mind Jason's early difficulties explaining to controllers what a Diamond Star was), the thing that the controller most needs to know is your airspeed (and, if you're going to shoot an instrument approach, even though the controller has your cruise airspeede on his strip, it might not hurt to say what category you're going to be when you shoot the approach). "Flint approach, five-one-seven is a Wangdoodle one zero zero slash golf, my cruise airspeed is one-two-five knots indicated, I'm ten north and I'd like to land full stop on two-seven." [Or "I'd like vectors to shoot the ILS for two-seven and I am category bravo for that approach."]

At untowered airports, I listen ten miles out and use the full callsign at the first call-up. If I determine that traffic is light, I usually speak plain English to the extent that I can, to-wit: "Lapeer traffic, the blue and white 172 is on base for three-six, Lapeer" and give my full tail number with the color scheme on final and on departure. That tells folks what I am so I'm more easily identifiable in terms that matter. Just remember: If you start usung your color or other identifying features, use them even in the calls when you give your tail number so no one thinks you're two different aircraft (apparently in formation).

Also, when changing over to untowered airports for an IFR approach, make sure that you speak plainly to the VFR traffic about what you're doing. "Lapeer traffic, Cessna niner two zero tango alpha is inbound on the VOR alpha, circle to three-six" doesn't help describe to that student in the C-152 in the pattern what the hell you're doing. Say "Lapeer traffic, Cessna niner two zero tango alpha is inbound on the VOR alpha with circle to land on three-six. I'm two miles west of the numbers of three-six and I intend to make a left base and land on three-six. Lapeer."

Hope that's helpful and not too preachy.

Tony, you're a gentleman and a scholar. And consummate media slut!

Enjoy!

- Steve

Here is one for ya,

I fly a Piper Arrow III PA28R-201. Not a problem right. Well when I talk to ATC I say something like "Arrow niner-four-three-six-charlie.. blah...blah...blah.." more often than not the controller comes back and calls me "Cherokee niner-four-three-six-charlie" So now what do I do? The Arrow is a Cherokee but it says Arrow right there on the side of the plane. Do I start calling my self a Cherokee? I tend to just continue to call my self Arrow, in turn ATC continues to call me Cherokee. Haven't had a problem yet but should I change?

-Will

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Seems like they're all Cherokees to ATC. Maybe the problem is that the tower can't see the lettering on the side of the plane. Courtesy would seem to dictate that you treat them to a fly-by and invite them to read it at close range. I find this especially helpful in Class D airports where there's a trainee in the cab.

(I'm kidding, fergossake!)

- Tup

Once on a trip from Kansas City to Ames in a Lance, Minneapolis Center started calling me Cherokee 8779C. Whatever, I just went along with it. Handed off to Des Moines approach, I got the inquisition, probably based on my 160 knot groundspeed "uhhh 8779C, are you a Cherokee" no sir!

_________________
Everyone must believe in something, I believe that I will go flying.

A little off subject...

A friend and I once called, "Livermore Tower Citbaria 57469 on the ILS".

To which the tower called back, "Citation 57469..."

You would think the G/S would have been a big clue, but I guess they didn't expect to find a lowly Citabria on the ILS.

On the subject of November. I rarely if ever hear it but I guess that's because it is normally so busy around here that nobody wants to waste the extra syllables.

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Brad
RV-7: RV7Factory.com
Blog: PilotBrad.com

I quite often wonder which to do myself quite often. I know that ATC is allowed to use a number of variations. FAA Order 7110.65S 2-4-20 has the rules ATC can use:



The AIM (4-2-4) states (in VERY brief):



I did take a visit to my Class D Tower one day and flat out asked ATC what they prefer. The general consensus was that if they, at some point after initial contact, use "Skyhawk 4 2 2" instead of "Cessna 4 2 2", which I happen to use as my 'personal preference', please use the one they use b/c they may be using it due to a possible radio confusion you don't know about if you just called up the Tower.

My CFI provided a good piece of "advice" with regard to uncontrolled airports. He preferes to use "Skyhawk" or "Cessna" or "Piper" or whatever at uncontrolled fields for sure b/c traffic in the area aren't really gonna look and say "Gee, is that N 5 5 4 2 2 on final or N 9 8 7 9 5?" They want to know that there's a Cessna or Skyhawk on the downwind and a Piper on the base leg b/c then they know to look for a low wing plane ahead of a high wing airplane. Much easier to pick out shapes instead of tail numbers...I guess